Supporting Foster Youth with Ms. Meagan Washington-Sims

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

work, children, talk, kids, Marva Collins, program, research, great grandmother, babies, Chicago, years, education, college, youth, develop, students

SPEAKERS

Amy Vujaklija, Joi Patterson, Meagan Washington-Sims

Meagan Washington-Sims: 00:03

Young people are our future. So if we are willing to invest in them, the opportunities can be potentially endless. Welcome

Amy Vujaklija: 00:12

to our podcast teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joy. I am Dr. Amy Vujaklija, Director of educator preparation.

Joi Patterson: 00:23

And I am Dr. Joi Patterson, Chief Diversity Officer. Our podcast addresses issues through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion, along with solutions for us to grow as educators.

Amy Vujaklija: 00:38

So join us on our journey to become better teachers and leaders. So let's get into it. Hello, Dr. Joy.

Joi Patterson: 00:50

Hi, Amy. How are you? I'm

Amy Vujaklija: 00:53

doing well. What about this conversation we're going to have today.

Joi Patterson: 00:58

So I'm excited about the topic. Let me tell you why. As the Chief Diversity Officer for Governor State University, one of the initiatives that I am implementing for the upcoming year is an initiative for youth in transition, previously known as aged out foster youth. And Dr. Amy, you and I, we actually have done one or two podcasts on this before about aged out foster youth or youth in transition or alternative care for you. And one of the things that we know is that the college completion rate. So first of all, there's a small percentage of students in this category that even pursue college, and those that do, there's about a three to 5% completion rate or graduation rate. I mean, that's just scary, right? I mean, it makes you want to cry, want to say, well, what is missing? How are we missing this population. And it's so easy for institutions to have honor societies and Honors College and all of that. And so we have resources for those who can write those students who are going to be successful no matter where they go. And we have fewer resources for those who need it the most. And we see that all the time. Right, exactly. So we're going to put some effort into helping those that need it the most, how can we replicate some of those great things that are going on? And those programs for those who you know, are going to make it and put value put value there for these students who are least likely to make it. And so I'm excited about what we're going to be doing, but I'm excited about hearing from the person who has this lived experience related to this issue.

Amy Vujaklija: 03:15

Yes, exactly. We are going to talk to Meagan Washington Sims about students in transition aged out foster youth. And Megan Washington Sims is a dedicated leader in the nonprofit sector. As a proud veteran of the United States Army. Miss Washington Simms has selflessly served her country and in her community with vigor and passion, and may I say Megan is an alumnus of Englewood High School in Chicago and holds a Master's in nonprofit management from Spertus College. She is actively pursuing studies at the doctoral level so it will one day soon not be Miss Washington Sims But Dr. Her research interests include epigenetics, health and wellness, childhood trauma, child welfare systems and resilience theories. And Megan's goal is to develop holistic mentoring and supportive programming to assist female youth in foster care in combating trauma and achieving self sufficiency. One of those elements of self sufficiency, I think, that we talked about is education. She is also a certified and registered adult and children's yoga instructor. Megan currently works in a program management within the nonprofit sector. Prior to this, she was the manager of the adolescent girls unit of Aunt Martha's health and wellness interim Care Center, we're going to hear more about Aunt Martha's facility and those resources. This professional endeavor was also a personal one. For Megan, as aunt Martha's was her foster care agency when she was a child until she was adopted by her great grandmother at the age of 11. Through her life's work, Megan aspires to empower individuals to overcome life's trials and travail toward greatness. Despite their circumstances. Her life's mantra is success does not come to you, you must go to it.

Joi Patterson: 05:42

I love it. I love it. Hi, Meagan. Hi are certainly sisters in the spirit every time I learn more about you just so you know, I grew up in Inglewood. So I don't know if you know that about me. But I grew up in Inglewood. But the more and more I know about you the more I love you, Meagan. And Meagan, you have been a godsend for many people, especially for Governor State University. And I'm so happy that you have come into my life. Before you came on Dr. Amy and I, we were talking about the new initiative at GSU. And we'll talk about that later on, and how you just came into my life and how now you're part of this initiative for us to help those students who need help the most. But before we get into all of that, Meghan, I want you to talk about your journey. You know, talk about your current position some more, you got a lot going on, and your research some of the things that you're doing outside of that, and how it all connects to your lived experience. You know, I want to know what got you to this point now.

Meagan Washington-Sims: 06:54

So currently, I work in social services and program management. I've been working in social services for over a decade now. I currently work for housing organization as a resident Services Manager. And I oversee properties as far as the social service component on the west side of Chicago, primarily, but also on the south side of Chicago. And one of our properties that is unique. And it's been designed for grandparents and great grandparents, who are raising their grandchildren and great grandchildren.

Joi Patterson: 07:35

You know, I'm already tired, my grandchildren come over. I have them overnight at least once a month. And I'm tired. So when Dr. Amy said not your grandmother, but your great grandmother raised you. Yes. tribute to your great grandmother.

Meagan Washington-Sims: 07:53

Yes. Yes, my great grandmother. When I was born, my great grandmother was 62 years old. And she had me from the time I was two months until I was 15 years old.

Amy Vujaklija: 08:06

I want to dig deeper. Tell us the story about your name, because we've had that conversation before. And you're honoring your great grandmother, aren't you?

Meagan Washington-Sims: 08:19

Yes. So my name is Megan Washington Sam's is hyphenated. My great grandmother raised and later adopted me when I was 11. Her last name was Sam's. So my half mom, my mother's last name, as well as my great grandmother's last name hyphenated, that is legally my maiden name, Washington fields. So yes, that's how I have the name that I have.

Joi Patterson: 08:49

This next thing I want to talk about is heart. And I remember that there used to be so many news stories about crack babies. And just so you know how I became involved in this initiative with youth and transition as because my husband adopted his children. So he has four children, two of the children would have been considered crack babies, right? And all I can say about what these crack babies is that they just needed a lot more love and attention. They're both successful adults. Can you share about the news stories in which you were feature? Kind of around that title? Want to know why you decided to conduct the interview? What message were you trying to convey?

Meagan Washington-Sims: 09:40

So there was a story, the title of the story was actually cocaine babies. And it was filmed by ABC SEVEN NEWS, Chicago in the spring of 1989. How I found out about the story, I had to be maybe 13 or 14 years old. And I've always been a naturally inquisitive child. So I was being nosy and going through like, oh, VHS is all family photo albums, different things like that, because I love history just in general. And I stumbled upon a VHS video and on the label, it said, Mama and Megan. So I put it in the VCR like, what is this, and I actually saw the story for myself, I didn't know anything about the story hadn't heard of it up until that point. So in my adult life, from there on, I always knew about it. In the story, Northwestern University, they did a study on babies who were born with cocaine in their system, it was doing the the cocaine and the crack epidemic in the 80s. And they were basically talking about all of the issues that the kids will have based on being cocaine exposed. In utero. One of the things that they talked about was how they will have issues in the classroom as far as learning and different barriers like that. So the baby that was featured in the news story was me, a little me, less than one years old, I was at an appointment with my great grandmother, one of my doctor's appointment, I had to be it was spring of 89. So I wasn't even one but I was, you know, standing up different things like that. I was featured, you know, being a feature in the story. So I was born at Northwestern. So that's where we received our medical care. And at that time, from what I was told, they had a really big program for when women were or drugs, they would go and have their babies there so that they can have the babies can have specialized care due to the cocaine that was in their system, and also to for data purposes, so that they can track the babies and kind of see how they fare as far as for their research. When I saw that video, as a teenager, I always said that when I you know, grew up and made something out of myself, I was going to reach back out and have them to do a follow up. So in August of 2018, I sent an email to several media outlets in the city of Chicago, and CBS is actually who follow up with CBS News to Chicago. So they responded to my emails. And they were interested in doing a follow up based on the information that I shared as far as at that point, I was 28 or 29. I was in school for my doctorate I had just just got accepted, I had just, you know, got a job and Marcus. So they agreed to follow me. And while doing that follow up, we were able to retrieve that video, that VHS and track down the VCR and actually watch it. So I got to watch it as an adult. I got to talk a little bit about my story, talk a little bit about my grandma talk a little bit about that term, Pac baby and how I felt about that, I wanted to do a follow up, because I consider myself to be very fortunate. I know that I did not get to where I am in life. You know, I just woke up this way. I know that my story is a unique one. And I feel that that label was put out there at that time. And I know that I'm not the only one like me, who grew up despite the circumstances made something out of themselves. And I feel that more stories like this should be highlighted. Interestingly enough, the doctor who who came up with that theory in that term, he passed away in 2017. And before he died, he basically said like, he was wrong, that whole entire generation of children was not essentially doom. And that we're given the right components, nurture can overrule nature were at that time, it was like these kids are hopeless. They got up they got drugs in their system is no hope. Don't even waste your time, pretty much. And he came out ultimately, and said that that wasn't completely true, because there are other variables that were not considered at the time, that can be considered. So I just wanted to put a positive spin on that.

Amy Vujaklija: 14:17

I think that's so powerful. You said your story is unique, but yet there are elements that really resonate and can resonate with a lot of people. And when we hear foster youth, a lot of times we think about barriers to success. And I think that that's part of what you're trying to do is say there might be some obstacles, some hurdles, but they don't have to be barriers. So share the good work that is happening in foster care. You mentioned aunt Martha's. What about Aunt Martha's and What are some of the good work that's happening and how you overturned those, we keep putting air quotes in for the listeners here, the perceived barriers, and also crack babies, those were in air quotes. So just to clarify for our listeners who are not seeing us with this engaged discussion,

Meagan Washington-Sims: 15:23

so Well, my family was introduced to and markers, I believe I was like, four, maybe five. Basically, their role in my life was to manage our case, they were assigned to our family to make sure that my sister and I were being taken care of make sure that we were safe, making sure that if we needed anything, any additional resources, any additional funding, that's where the agency stepped in. And then after so many years went by, because they have a child welfare division, where they focus on foster care, but they also focus on kinship care, which was what I would fall under, under that umbrella because I was being raised by family, you know, family or relatives and kinship care could be a grandma on a godparent, whatever the case may be. So aunt Martha's actually was they were instrumental in facilitating the adoption process. As some of the listeners might know, adoption can be very expensive. So at Martha's, they pay all of the fees, they did all of the paperwork, you know, the justification at that time we had been because I do have a younger sister, and she had us both, we had been with her since we were infants. So at that point, it was kind of like, even if my biological mother would have gotten herself together at that time, it still would have potentially been disruptive, because we were rooted and we were stable. So at that point in time, they pushed for the adoption. So at Martin's, they still have that side where they help with kinship care, they help with adoption. They also help with traditional foster care where, as far as placement in people's homes and marches are still doing great work. They have that side, they have health care centers now where children and families can go and get their medical care throughout the state of Illinois. And in the Chicagoland area, primarily, they have services as far as shelter services for young people who may be in crisis, and they can't stand with anyone. So they have a place for them to go within the state of Illinois where they can receive services and be safe and get stabilized and get placed there except a lot of youth who have high needs, who it may be hard or difficult to play some baseball and mental health concerns or you know, at risk behaviors, and they welcome those children well with open arms and support them the best they can, till they are able to place them. And one of the things that an agency was running into were kids were aging out, and that was nowhere safe for them to go. So now they're in the process of building a program where they can help those kids have somewhere safe to go.

Joi Patterson: 18:15

So that's what I'm going to talk to you about now is those kids that are aged out. And so when we talk about these children, they receive alternative care, you know, whether it's a foster care or kinship care, what happens to that kid, when they reach a mass of patient tell us about that transition from being that kid to now I'm a teenager, and I'm approaching emancipation. So

Meagan Washington-Sims: 18:46

here in Illinois, Illinois, little unique emancipation age is 21. We're in a lot of other states, it's 18. Oftentimes, what I've seen happen, we've seen kids who they're about to turn 21, they've burned so many bridges with their family members and their friends that they literally have nowhere to go. And once they turned 21, they probably have to go to a shelter. Like I've seen it, I witnessed that, where it's like you're on a full adult now. And you have to figure it out. But one thing that I can say that I haven't seen over the past five years, is more programming being developed to help those kids figure it out, whether it be going to college, getting a job, you know, whatever it is that they want to do like to do something to have a plan and you don't start planning for emancipation at 21. Ideally, you want to plan for that prior to you being old enough to work so that when you do start working, you can say okay, well I'll work I'll go to school, and you know, I'll go off to college or join the military, whatever decision that the young person makes but having a plan. That's the only way to kind of prevent not falling into the societal ills of being homeless, becoming incarcerated, being a victim of a crime, different things like that, like I've had kids who I've worked with who I've had kids, unfortunately, who were murdered, I've had kids who have committed suicide, I've, I follow Chicago mug shots on social media. And I've seen so many of my kids in there for armed robbery and theft and human trafficking and different things like that. And it's disheartening, because it's like, I've worked with these kids, I know their backstory and the things that they've been through. And they literally, essentially, they have no body. So that's the path. Now, of course, that's not every child, but it's a very high percentage, if I'm not mistaken, it's about 75% of those kids. They're at risk for those behaviors, and about 75% of them go their way, they go on a path, because they may feel like that's the best that they can do. And that's how they survive.

Joi Patterson: 21:08

Yeah, this is really heart wrenching. And now, Amy, those numbers make sense that we were talking about earlier about the small percentage that even make it to college. And once they make it to college, only that three to 5% are completing college. So thank you for kind of sharing the kinds of experiences that they go through out about the resources that they have. So I'm at the point, I'm 18, or 21, what kind of resources do I get from the state or anything? What are those things that can actually help and what kind of resources do they have?

Meagan Washington-Sims: 21:47

So healthcare has now been extended for them. And I believe until they're 26. So that is a positive move and a step in the right direction, at least they can have health care, there are plenty of opportunities for scholarships and different programs like that. But the barrier with that is a lot of it is the young people don't know, they don't know what opportunities or you know, what programs that are available to them. And like, there's a hacky, it's called a foster care toolkit. And within that packet, it's goal setting, it's you know, it's basically setting the young person up on a plan so that they won't end up homeless or whatever the case may be. But all of that facilitating that falls on the caseworker who's already overwhelmed, overworked, you know, and a high amount of cases to manage. And then a young person has to be interested, it's voluntary, it's optional. It's not like you are mandated to complete this. So some young person may not, they may not want to sit down and have that even if it's mentioned to them. So therein lies to watch contribute to that small amount of kids that do go to college. And even if they go, there are so many supports and wraparound services that are needed based on their unique needs, for them to be successful. And to finish, they may not finish in, you know, a bachelor's degree of four years, it may take them five or six years. And that could be discouraging for some but the point is finishing, not when you finish, just finishing. So I feel that if we can get more young people on that path to pursuing higher education, just knowing what benefits are potentially available to support them and programs, that it could be life changing for them and ultimately, impact the world. Because these are people, these young people are our future. So if we are willing to invest in them, the opportunities can be potentially endless. And when I speak on the subject, I do have to consider myself, I'll be 35 in September, but you know, not too long ago, I was a teenager, and I have to make decisions based on my life and the circumstances. I wasn't afforded the opportunity to just stay at home as an adult. So I had to figure out what I had to do and have a plan for myself. I started working at 16 When I turned 17, I made the decision to join the army. So I served in the military for five years, that afforded me the opportunity to have free education using the post 911 GI Bill and then later currently the Illinois veterans grant. So this will be the third degree that I've completed once I graduated in May of next year. And my tuition has been completely covered. I just purchased a home in November. The VA home loan program helped me to where I didn't have to pay any down payment or any closing costs, making that decision at a young age, it definitely propelled me to the life that I have. Now, absolutely. But it's one of those things where I had to make that decision, no matter what I had to see it through, and it changed the trajectory of my life. I stay off all the time that the best decision that I made in my entire life was joining the military. And I don't regret it to this day, was it easy? No, was every day sunshine and Ryan balls? Absolutely not. But I received a wealth of benefits, I got to travel the world, I met a lot of great people who are you know, now at retirement age, and they're in their 30s. And they are impacting the world and being great. So it was a great decision for me. And though I know that that may not be the best decision for everyone, it worked for me, I was able to take up a trade. So in addition to the degrees that I have, I have a trade that the military pay for, I got to, you know, travel the world and you know, do all that great stuff. So it just was a multi layer decision. And it worked for me because when I graduated, I didn't want to go to college immediately. But I knew that I wanted to go, for me, the social aspect of high school was not the best. My grades were not the best I was, I did not graduate with honors, or any of that I graduated. So when I graduated from high school, I had a 2.6 GPA. And when these programs are being developed at the university level, sometimes they go for the, the honors students, the eight students, the ones with the highest GPA and different things like that. And though I get it, that's not always a guarantee, because you may have some, some young people who they want to go to college, but they don't have the grades.

Amy Vujaklija: 27:03

I think you make a really good point, lots of good points. One, and this goes for our high schoolers, in any demographic, every type of background, that military is a possibility. We often say go straight to your career or go straight to education. And there isn't one pathway. And often at Governor State University, we have multiple ways that people come to us. And we pride ourselves in that as well, that we can meet students where they are. And the other piece about GPAs and how the programs are specifically geared. Dr. Joy and I were talking about how there always seems to be a lot of resources available and accessible to the students who can and no. So you're an honor student and you know where the Writing Center is. And you know where the other resources are? What about the students who have not had that exposure or that background? To know the right questions to ask? You're currently in a doctoral program and I see your shirt I want to see the whole shirt because I love it. For our listeners. It's a to do list and it has a check mark, Bachelor show checkmark master and there's an empty box that you're going to be filling in in your doctoral program. What about your research, talk a little bit about what direction it's taking and how it's shaping your journey.

Meagan Washington-Sims: 28:54

So for me, I am in my last two classes, the doctoral program. I am a doctoral candidate for my degree at government State University. I only have three weeks left of those classes. So I'm very excited because it's Capstone time. And for me, my research is definitely going to be focused on this population, the foster youth and the youth that are also in kinship care. I feel that my research by this being my life's work, and we've been so closely tied into it. I feel that I know for the Capstone, I have to decide on one length, but I definitely see myself beyond the capstone. Anything that's related to this topic, this subject matter whether it be education, whether it be housing, or you know, leadership, and staff in those child serving organizations. I feel myself being pulled in a lot of different directions. But as long as the work that I do What our research is impactful, I'm fulfilled. So currently, I've done some presentations and some research in education. And as far as having that be a viable post secondary pathway for the young people. In addition to that, I've done some research in housing, I actually will be presenting my research next week at a conference in DC, where I'll be talking about how to develop a supportive housing program for foster and kinship care users based on their unique needs. So of course, all of this is all just ideas based on the research and the data. But I would hope that ultimately, I could take my research farther, I'm definitely doing the educational component, would you guess you and being involved in the task force there, but also, if I could do some work in housing, great. If I can do some work and leadership development, as far as developing those managers, and those staffs in those facilities, I would like to do that as well. My capstone will ultimately be all encompassing, I want to benefit the young people, of course, and give them viable options. But I have to touch on the leadership component, one due to the nature of my doctoral program, but also to, we can have all of these great programs and all of this wonderful stuff for these kids. But if we don't have the right people in place, facilitating the programming supporting the children, it will be a waste. So one of the things that I want to talk about is how do we develop and I guess I'll coined the term, how do we develop the competent and the compassionate professional, and child welfare? Everyone can't do this work. Even in my own career, I had to take a step back. And, you know, though, I still research the population, I have the heart for the population, I have to do it in another capacity. So I use my research more so as a role of being an advocate for this population. And I want to based on my experience, personally and my experience working on the field, I want to help develop and train the leaders, I want to help develop the programming and implement the programming to help the kids not necessarily hands on every day where, where there's a bunch of crisis and different things like that. But getting them to the next step based on the work that I've done. I've worked in group calls, I worked in shelters, I work part time, at a hospital in a psychiatric setting, working with these children and doing mental health assessments in an emergency setting and, and things like that. So I have my foot on the ground and other ways to still be able to give back at this level, you know, I want to be able to, I want the research that I do to help. So Meghan,

Joi Patterson: 32:56

you were gracious enough to join this task force that we started through dei for helping youth and transition and we named it and you helped us name that achieving completion with excellence. Tell us more about this task force, what it aims to do, and what is your hope for our goals.

Meagan Washington-Sims: 33:20

So with the ACE program, one of the things that stood out to me when we selected the name, and I love it is it puts a positive spin on the term ace. Usually when people hear the term ace, they think of adverse childhood experiences, which is a tool that's used to assess whether or not individuals have experienced trauma in their life as a child, and how that could potentially be an indicator for behaviors, certain diseases and life circumstances. So I love the fact that ace is putting a positive spin on that acronym. Currently, the program is geared towards providing wraparound and supportive services to this population, which I think is great. So we're touching on health and wellness, and counseling services to support these use. We're tapping into support as far as mentors, building that village around them. We're touching base on housing, being able to see what housing resources that may be available, what funding may help as far as tuition, so being able to hit the youth in every area of their life and just support them and get them, get them to college, but also get them through college. So that's if I can give a summary of what the program is designed to do. That would be it. I'm definitely a big fan of it. Because for me, of course, education is freedom. And it has liberated me it has given me the opportunity to advance and it has given me the opportunity to sowhat to the lives of others. And I laugh sometimes because I remember as a kid very vividly, I want to get my report card. And back in the 90s, they had this other portion outside of grades where they were talking about your behavior. And every report card that I said it was Meagan is very talkative. Meagan talks a lot. Meagan talks too much. And now I get to talk, I

Amy Vujaklija: 35:33

love it. I love it so much

Meagan Washington-Sims: 35:36

for a living. And I get to share my story. And I get to inspire and I get to instill hope. And even when doing things like in 2018, I went back to Inglewood and I was their keynote speaker for their graduation. So I got to share my story with those young people so that they can see like good things do come from the community that you dwell in. And whatever it is that we decided to do in life, we will be if we're committed to succeeding, we will, and we're committed to taking a different path, we will

Amy Vujaklija: 36:10

you make such a good point about education being the great liberator, that is something no one can take away. I mean, they can take away a house, they can take away a car, but you can't just take away someone's education, it is ingrained in us. And that's part of us loved this conversation so much. I just have one last question. Now, before we leave, what would you say to the 16 year old youth who is starting that transition process that is approaching emancipation in that near future? What are your words to them.

Meagan Washington-Sims: 36:55

So what I will say to them is they're ultimately gonna make their own decisions, but make your decisions count. Think about the life and I tell the young people that I work with all the time, when you're 16, think about the life you wanted 18 When you're 18, think about the life you wanted 21 and 25, and 30, and so on and so forth, and set goals that has served me well. And I spent a lot of my younger years thinking about what I didn't want to be and the type of life that I didn't want to have. And so anything that took me into direction, that was the polar opposite of that, that's the direction that I went in. Also, I would encourage them to tap into those resources, tap into those support systems. There are people out here who are willing to talk to you who are willing to support you well beyond whatever services you might be receiving. Ultimately, you have to believe in yourself, you all share it in my bio, my life motto, being success does not come to you, you must go to it. That quote is from Marva Collins, who was a well known educator here in the city of Chicago. And one of the things that Marva Collins did, and I know about Marva Collins from watching film and television as a kid and I got to see the Marva Collins story. So what she did was she took kids who the public school system had rolled them off, but all of these labels on them saying what they couldn't do, and pretty much they were not going to amount to anything. She took these kids into our home and turned her living room into a classroom. And she taught these children herself. And these children end up growing up to be doctors, lawyers, pilots, so on and so forth. So she believed in them, despite what was said about them, and then she pushed them to believe in themselves. And ultimately, of course, she went on to open her own school that was an exception, well over, I believe, 25 years, until after she passed away. And then they later closed it down the fire that Marva Collins had, you don't really see a lot of professionals with that anymore, whether it be in social services, education, sometimes that fire gets so diminished, you know, just check the box is what's being pushed. So even as a professional in my field, I just vowed to never use that fire. You may have to adjust it, you know, to be able to do what's within the confines of your job, but always keep that fire for that population. So to that young person, there are people that are out here that are willing to help and support you. So gravitate towards them versus those who tell you what you can't do.

Joi Patterson: 39:45

Outstanding! what a wonderful way to end the and I think it's not just a message for those 16 year olds, but it's a message to all of us, and we call ourselves educators. And so for us, it's a Call to action. So I appreciate you sharing your story. And they can't be easy each time you share the story. But I am so thankful that you have this gift, it has become a gift. And I'm so thankful that you are sharing your gift, and you're using your gift to make a difference.

Meagan Washington-Sims: 40:20

You are having me I really truly do. I feel that me telling my story. It's not optional. At this point in my life, I have to

Joi Patterson: 40:29

hope it gets so much hope I'm so happy that you're part of Ace. I'm happy about what we're going to be able to do at Governor State University. I've already added to our to do list, we need to track our alarms, because they are going to be alarmed. And we need to track their success stories. And I just appreciate you so much for this foundational work that we're doing.

Meagan Washington-Sims: 40:57

No problem. I'm just looking forward to continuing to do the groundwork to help to build the program. I do aspire to be a professor. So hopefully I'm able to come aboard at Governor state and be able to be in the classroom so that when we get those young people who may identify as youth who are experiencing or have experienced alternative care, I can say come talk to me. Let's make sure that you're on the right path and you're getting everything that you should be receiving as far as support to get you through the process. Just letting them know like it's possible. It's definitely possible to succeed to exhale no matter what you're faced with.

Amy Vujaklija: 41:42

Thank you so much. And I look forward to one day saying welcome to our podcast, Dr. Washington since

Joi Patterson: 41:52

you know I want to be the one on the stage shaking your hand when you receive that doctorate degree. We're so proud of you. Thank you.

Amy Vujaklija: 42:01

Thank you for listening to teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joy. Visit our website at govst.edu/teaching and leading podcast to see the show notes from this episode.

Joi Patterson: 42:19

We appreciate Governor State University's work behind the things to make publishing possible. Stay tuned for more episodes with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi