Reboot: Examining Teacher Retention with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi - Part 3

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

teachers, administrators, work, talk, teaching, team, opportunities, retention, classroom, school, employee retention, teacher shortage, issues, community, leader, students, conflict resolution, year

SPEAKERS

Joi Patterson, Amy Vujaklija

Joi Patterson: 00:03

Let's do some problem solving. Let's work through this because if there's a problem for you, and you're the teacher, then it shouldn't be a problem for me as your leader.

Amy Vujaklija: 00:12

This episode was originally released under the podcast titled teaching and learning, theory versus practice. This rebooted episode has been migrated to teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joy. I am Dr. Amy Vujaklija, Director of educator preparation.

Joi Patterson: 00:32

And I am Dr. Joi Patterson, Chief Diversity Officer, our podcast addresses issues through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion, along with solutions for us to grow as educators. So join us on our journey to become better teachers and leaders. So let's get into it.

Amy Vujaklija: 00:56

Good morning, Dr. Joi.

Joi Patterson: 00:57

Good morning. Dr. Amy, how are you today?

Amy Vujaklija: 00:58

I think that we are on a roll for talking about important topics. And although I'd rather be talking about what people do in School Psychology and school counseling and the great technology resources out there, we need to have this conversation about teacher retention.

Joi Patterson: 00:58

Yes, and this is our session three of talking about teacher retention. And if you recall, you know, in that first segment, we really talked about the challenges of why we have this problem. Let's explore that some more. But in this session, we want to leave administrators specifically with some things that they can do to help teacher retention because we know that this is the biggest problem. So let me tell you about a recent survey that I just reviewed, and this was given to administrators across the country. It's called the K 12, leader pulse survey. And this survey examines the most urgent issues for K 12 leaders right now. So number one was climate and culture. And so we talked about that before and belonging and all of those things. The second one was employee retention. And the third one was learning loss. As sad as it is Amy, I am not surprised that learning loss took a backseat to employee retention ARE YOU. i We have to have we have to have teachers in the classroom in order to stop learning loss and advance new learning and do anything until there are teachers in the classroom? Absolutely, we have to have the tools and the teachers have to have the tools. So right now, there are three main factors, you know, of trying to understand what is the issue with teacher shortage? What's resulting in this teacher shortage. So there's three main factors that I can come up with number one, teacher recruitment, new teachers, number two, teacher retention, the average teacher stays for only five years now compared to 50 years ago, when the average teacher stayed for 20 years, and then retirement. So now what we have a meet is a perfect storm. That's what we have right now. Teaching has become less attractive for those who can. And we need those who can if we don't want learning loss, and don't when you think about it, those who can I mean, just think you have three bright children, you have two young adults. And so when you think about those who can like your children, they have lots of opportunities, right? And the pandemic reveal everything. That's right. And what's wrong about teaching, right, it was just on Front Street, all over the news, people were appreciative of teachers, you got a glimpse of what teachers were going through during the pandemic. But you also saw everything that was wrong with teaching. So those who can can explore their opportunities, so it's not as attractive as it used to be. So that's our first problem with attracting new teachers. Then we have teacher retention. And as I said before, teachers only say an average of five years now. And the major reasons for leaving I personally call them you've heard this before the five P's, which are pressure policies, parents pension and pay. Those are the top five reasons that teachers leave and then that third thing that makes up this perfect storm is that retirement is according to the National Center of Education Statistics. 1/3 of teachers are eligible for retirement 1/3. And so can you imagine, now you have this pandemic, which no teacher is happy with going through the pandemic and having to teach remotely and things of that nature and all the learning loss. So due to the pandemic, those who can retire are retiring. So now we end up with this perfect storm of the inability to attract those who can teach a retention and retirement. So no wonder we have a shortage. There's

Amy Vujaklija: 05:47

another little step in between recruitment and retention. And I think that's reflective engagement. Because teachers who are staying in the classroom, they're there for their own professional goals, and advancement. What is difficult right now is their reflective engagement in that recruitment process. And that retention process in which we have high quality mentors for our candidates who need field experience, hours to see good teaching in practice. And so when they enter into student teaching, they might not have as good of an experience. And it's hard to find those placements also. And then when they enter their year one, year two, they are under prepared in the practice, even though they have a strong foundation in theory. So there's that other step one, A and B. That are missing. I'm doing this right now.

Joi Patterson: 07:02

It's a vital part. And we're having challenges ourselves when it comes to mentor teachers. The teacher shortage is not everywhere. So let's be honest about that the teacher shortage isn't everywhere. It is more prevalent in urban and rural areas. So what are suburban schools more specifically? What are white suburban, affluent school districts doing to attract and retain teachers that other school districts can do? So last time, we were talking about companies, right, and companies with the best employee retention, and these companies they span from car dealerships, like CarMax, believe it or not, to pharmaceutical companies, like Pfizer's to manufacturers, like Procter and Gamble. So these companies, when I just throw out those names, they have nothing in common other than strong employee retention strategies. So what So I want to just go through a list and see how you feel about this list of what we can glean what we can learn from these companies that we can try to employ in the K 12 education system realistic things.

Amy Vujaklija: 08:15

So I'm really curious, what are they doing? Keep their employees I need to know. Okay,

Joi Patterson: 08:23

so here, this one you'll love, hire promising people, people who are in it for the right reason. Okay,

Amy Vujaklija: 08:31

so we have an evaluation instrument in our methods, classes, called dispositions that should gauge whether a candidate is in it for the right reasons. So I feel like at Governors State University, we do have some pieces in place that address that. I don't want someone going on into the classroom. Who doesn't have a focus on the children in front of them? Yep.

Joi Patterson: 09:03

So you got we got to start with the right people and those who can't, shouldn't. So we there has to be some weeding. Okay. Here's another one, belonging and employee interaction. And this include valuing diversity. We talked

Amy Vujaklija: 09:21

a lot about belonging in episode two. In our second in this three part series, belonging is about honoring diversity. I think it's also about the kinds of diversity we are willing to welcome and embrace. So racial diversity, socio economic diversity, religious diversity, cultures, ethnicities. We are whole people. We are not parts of people. And I think at Governor State University, our programs are doing a good job of diversity and the belonging piece. So what are schools doing to honor that diversity in that, and to welcome people into their school and keep them feeling as though they are welcomed?

Joi Patterson: 10:21

Yeah. Segment two, we talked about Dr. Angela Wells, who is the only African American teacher in her school. And it's a predominantly Latino school. And she felt like she wasn't valued because the school had no plans for Black History Month. So there you go. So then what happens is that she starts to feel like I don't belong. And so I should, therefore go somewhere else. So you're absolutely right. Here's another positive conflict resolution, these companies actually solicit disagreements, they want to know what bothers you.

Amy Vujaklija: 10:59

Let's talk more about that. Like, what do you mean by soliciting that feedback? So what is it?

Joi Patterson: 11:09

We were teachers, right? And, you know, teachers, teachers can complain, we can find lots of things to complain about. So how do we do that positively, where your leader has a mechanism of listening or accepting that feedback, where it doesn't come off as complaining, where it's more, we're a team, let's do some problem solving, let's work through this. Because if it's a problem for you, and you're the teacher, then it should be a problem for me, as your leader.

Amy Vujaklija: 11:45

So it's that defensiveness that people might have, if they are approached with a problem or a concern, a lot of people put up their guard. But if we can have this open door, open arms type of policy in which we can talk about issues, then then that can be really positive. It can be. So as long as administrators aren't defensive about their about the approach, or if someone comes to them with a problem, then we can resolve a lot of these issues. And I think a lot of organizations struggle with this. Right? So it's the National Writing Project. And other writing projects, sites that I've been involved in, we've dealt with this type of issue was this said correctly? Did someone take offense, but when handled appropriately, and when someone is open to criticism, friendly, a friendly critique, then, so much can be resolved at the time at the place that it happens instead of festering, right? And

Joi Patterson: 13:03

if I want change to occur, then I can come to you instead of coming to the teacher next door that can't do anything about my problems? Because now you're open. So very good. I really liked that one. What would you say about number four? This is more challenging, because it's really abstract. Keeping your team happy, keeping your teachers happy?

Amy Vujaklija: 13:24

Okay, so what makes a teacher happy? All right. Let me think about whenever I was teaching middle school, some

Joi Patterson: 13:33

things are pretty low maintenance. Right? I'm

Amy Vujaklija: 13:35

pretty low maintenance. It was, it was nice that we had Teacher Appreciation Week. Sure. It was neat to have a little note in my mailbox. That said, you know, thank you for this specific thing that you did, or for being part of this committee. Wow. I mean, I didn't have to have anything more than that. Some snacks at the faculty meeting, that was once a week or once every two weeks. It was also whenever they brought in the popcorn machine from the concession stand. We could smell the popcorn and we were excited. It didn't matter,

Joi Patterson: 14:15

right? Teachers are really, really important is when teachers have what they need. Right? That really makes teachers happy because teachers will beg, borrow and steal to get what they need. And if you could provide them hey, you need a camera. I'll get your camera. Hey, you need this materials. We'll work on getting you those materials. Makes a teacher really happy. It's like Christmas. time a teacher gets a package. Exactly. So no, that's fine. Yeah. All right.

Amy Vujaklija: 14:49

It doesn't take a whole lot. Like I said a note in the mailbox that does not cost anything but time time that is very precious. So that's why it was more valued, perhaps then thrown a candy bar in there with, with no note, you know that yes cost more money than the note does. But the time is precious and we recognize time is precious. So thank say thank you.

Joi Patterson: 15:17

So one of the things that I used to do as an administrator was I would buy a big box of Skittles, probably maybe four of those a year from fans. And I had a list of every birthday of every employee, and I would give them a card and a pack of Skittles. Every time it was someone's birthday, and I think that they really appreciated that just for someone that's an amine, no Skittles cost me 50 cents. And it made all the difference in the world. Okay, you're gonna love this one synergy working well together. One of the things that I used to do is purposely create the schedule, where teachers had opportunities for teen planning. When

Amy Vujaklija: 16:02

I taught middle school, we had teams Mm hmm, not so much when I taught high school, we had departments. And we did have some people who had common plantings, I don't think it was as intentional as it was in the middle school, or in the middle school, we had social studies, English, math, all in one team. And we would have a common planning so that we could have meetings with students, and parents, perhaps if that was the case, individualized education plans, and so on, so that we could all be on the same page,

Joi Patterson: 16:41

right, you can do after projects. Yeah. When

Amy Vujaklija: 16:46

the team was very intentionally planned and put together with personalities and attention to strengths and weaknesses, that team rocked, it was awesome. There was a time in which there had been a disagreement between two faculty members, in previous year two, and then they ended up on the same team together. I'm not sure what the purpose for that was, it did not have that synergy. It was very emotionally hazardous to do that. We have different people we get along with in a school, we gravitate to the people who we get along with. I like the idea of purposefully grouping people who might not have had the opportunity to work together. But when you have real reasons for not putting people on a particular team together, or to kind of limit their committee work together. I mean, there's real reason for that. So one thing that could have been done was conflict resolution. So let's go back to what was it number three? Number two, oh, it was really high up on the list. So let's go back to it. Right, it was number three. So going back to that one, conflict resolution never happened, right, that could have been so valuable, it would have been so valuable. And then that team would have had synergy because all of the conflict would have been worked out. But lacking that conflict resolution, and then putting people together who had had a conflict in the past was not the best move. So administrators out there who works well together, if you're going to select your committee members, who has that synergy, who can move that project forward? Who can you call upon? That works? Just like yin and yang together?

Joi Patterson: 18:54

Yeah. We always say you need a champion. And I just know, for our listeners who are listening, Amy is in the camera. speaking these words to us administrators here, Amy. So the sixth one, it goes with that and is praised what teams have accomplished together. So Amy, I've been in a number of meetings with you. Your name gets called out a lot singularly. And it's nice for you to hear and I'm sure you're like, Hey, I've been recognized and it makes you feel good. And what do you think the rest of us are doing?

Amy Vujaklija: 19:28

See, I don't like that singular name calling out of things. If it's a group effort. Let's talk about the secondary team or the people who are involved in this committee did some fantastic work. I chair some committees, and I'm involved in some various committees. We have a group effort. So when I've done the work singularly Yeah, I love the phrase. That's great. I mean, but if someone is called out to be praised in such a way, I encourage that person to be sure to turn to the people on the committee and say, Mr. Snell, and so was asked with me, because

Joi Patterson: 20:17

I couldn't do it alone. Yeah, couldn't do it alone.

Amy Vujaklija: 20:21

The administrators should take note of who else is on the committee. I see nothing wrong with acknowledging someone who has stepped forward to be a leader on a committee, a chair of the committee, as long as the rest of the people also get their fair share of the credit. That's

Joi Patterson: 20:40

a huge motivator. I don't care if the person in the office was the one responsible for making sure you had all your copies for that meeting or sending things off to you mentioned their name, too, because that's a huge motivator. And they're more likely to help the next team reach across the aisle. Right now. We're working on a special education grant. We've included a special ed, early childhood school psychology, school counseling, speech pathologist and social work. So we're reaching across the aisle so that these teams can work together. Okay, here's number seven. Create a workplace that feels like a community.

Amy Vujaklija: 21:21

Nice. So we've told our candidates in the past and new teachers avoid that work room. Yeah, get involved in the workroom gossip, Uh huh. But then we need to also direct them to where do you go. So the community piece is really important. And that starts it day one. So if you have different roles, or different duties that people can be responsible for. I know, at my middle school, it's a little less restricted with the contracts. We've signed up for particular duties, like monitoring, detention, or after school tutoring, or chaperoning the dance and so on. And that was fun, because you also saw the other people who had that similar interest and joined in that effort with you. We also were able to save some money and purchase supplies for students. So that was part of our building of community was what are we willing to do and to give up? That's a conversation for part one of this episode, what do we give up in order to be teachers? But what are we willing to do together as a community to make sure our students have what they need?

Joi Patterson: 22:46

And oh, yeah, yeah. So at the beginning of the year, or the end of the year, I would have the teachers with a calendar, and we would build our community calendar. And we would do two community events a month. So we had a lot of events like 18 in the academic year, and each teacher had to hit something. And they can pull their team together, but they had to be the lead. So we made sure we did the things like doughnuts for Dad muffins. For Mom, we have a breakfast. For every PTO meeting, we had dinner for every school board meeting, you know, we wanted parents to come out, we wanted parents to feel like it was a community we had games for Little Tykes, you know, that the parents had to bring with them. So we that we then want to give the parents an excuse for not coming. And it really made us feel like a community that parents and teachers were actually working together because we intentionally provided opportunities for them to get together. Okay, here's number eight, allow teams to set metrics. Teachers set goals for themselves and their students. I used to use something similar using a boy or model, tell me what you're going to do. Tell me what it is that you want you want to achieve for this academic year before we get started, and then measuring the teacher based on what they said they wanted to achieve. I like that.

Amy Vujaklija: 24:19

And so often, we aren't allowed to set our own metrics for growth and improvement and success. Most importantly, success. Because we're always needing to improve. We know that each and every day is a struggle to get better and get better. But at some point, we have to recognize our successes. And so often, what we see in the classroom at the school level and district level are outside imposed, measure measurements for success. So standardized test scores or a Other elements? How did the students do? That is one measurement. And it shouldn't be the only one. So what are teachers doing to develop themselves? What are their goals? And then coming back at that end of the year and saying, Hey, how did it go? Where are your successes? Let's talk about your success. Administrators. Talk about your teacher success. Yeah, find out what they're doing. Because you would be amazed at the amount of knowledge and expertise in professional growth that happens in a 12 month teacher cycle, because summer is not excluded from that teaching cycle. Summer is not for just sitting out getting some sun going on vacations, teachers are reading they're researching. Their minds are going 100 miles an hour, trying to think of that new plan. I'll be watching a show or reading a book and thinking, Oh, wow, here's a little clip I should use in my methods class. Or this is a perfect excerpt to show my teacher candidates how to model imagery and writing for their own future students. So it doesn't stop. We don't just stop thinking. Alright. So let's talk about those successes. Yeah.

Joi Patterson: 26:30

And I bet any goals that teachers would set for themselves and their students would exceed what the standardized assessment goals are hands down. So the next one is over, communicate and communicate through multiple channels. So communication,

Amy Vujaklija: 26:49

I was always with communication. I think that's really important. Transparency, even more. So when we were told to do something. And I'm saying we as in middle school teachers, high school teachers to implement a certain program or to do a certain test preparation, without any context that was hard. That raised some issues. Talk about conflict resolution, why are we doing this? But whenever the data were presented to us, and we were transparent, the administration told us why we were doing certain things, why certain programs needed to be implemented. That was empowering, really,

Joi Patterson: 27:38

yeah, it is. And even all the communication you get, you know, we receive communication differently, depending on our style. My husband was an art teacher, oh my gosh, you would really have to use a special communication for him or him to get it so I mean, we have to communicate often right? And we have to use a variety of channels. Everybody's not checking their emails all day. Right. So we have to have other opportunities, know your know your teachers, and know how best they like their communication channels. Okay, here's No, we only got a few more, reward your employees. I like this one, because teachers are I hate to keep saying this, but most teachers are low maintenance, and it doesn't take a lot to make a teacher feel appreciated. One of the things that I used to do was no absence, Panera Bread, the teachers loved Panera Bread. So whenever we had zero absence, I would go out and I would buy a whole lot of Panera Bread, set it up in the teachers lounge. So I would announce to them in the morning that we have no teachers absence. So I was spending less than what it costs for one thought that day. For the teachers not being absent. So I was saving money. So they wouldn't even talk to each other. Like it's going to be Friday, I could use some Panera Bread, don't be absent. So that was that was one reward. The other thing and this may be difficult for some districts is that I would pay the teachers at the end of the year for every day they didn't take off. So if they were allowed a certain amount of days, and I pay them at the end of the year for every day, they did not pay take off. My daughter she receives gift cards every time she has an observation. And her observation is dynamic. She gets a $25 Target gift card loves it and it's not a lot but it says I value you and

Amy Vujaklija: 29:43

now go buy some something for yourself, which she probably doesn't do. She probably goes and does something for her classroom with that $25 gift card. Something else that I know some of my administrators have done is is rewarding teachers with an extra planning, like they would come in and cover the class, some kind of workshop or some kind of interactive activity that you've got planned or that they planned for the students. So it's not just an empty class period. And you could be the observer, or you could go do what ever you needed to do that planning period, extending that space for yourself to grade or to call parents or have a meeting or breve.

Joi Patterson: 30:36

Now, yep, small things to reward. So really quickly, a few more growth opportunities. And so I know you have a lot to say about growth opportunities, teachers need to feel that they can grow beyond where they are. And sometimes that doesn't necessarily mean growing out of being a teacher,

Amy Vujaklija: 30:54

right? It doesn't have to be that. But our administrators providing professional development opportunities that are not district mandated training, we have those trainings, and we know that they are important and mandatory and valuable. However, our teachers are also encouraged to do a summer retreat, or an institute in which they are honing their writing practices, something that engages them in new forms of technology. And then not just that, but are they asked to be leaders when they return from those opportunities to share with their colleagues. So that is an area for identifying growth potential in a teaching roles.

Joi Patterson: 31:48

And here's the last one of making sure your teachers have tools to work with, there's a movie that I really love is called burped. It's about a chef. And the chef is narcissistic. And but he is very much into his tools, he has to have the right equipment, he has to have the right knives, he has to sharpen his knives. And when I think about teachers, I think about teachers number one as the tool, they need to be sharp. But I also think about the tools that teachers need to help them to be sharp. And we learned a lot about that during the pandemic, so many of the teachers didn't have the tools that they needed to be successful. So I think, as administrators, we can do a much better job of making sure we equip our teachers to be the best that they can be. And we don't

Amy Vujaklija: 32:46

have to go down a pathway of I can't do this. I don't have this. We can be creative. We can have these conversations in which administrators and teachers both ask, what is it we need to accomplish? And what are the ways to get there? What tools would make that possible? Okay, we can't have a $4,000. Yeah, why berrio sound whiteboard, we might not be able to go down that pathway. Okay, let's look at different options. We don't have to take something totally off the table because of cost. Because everything needs to be on the table for discussion. And if we have the right people around the table, different perspectives, different points of view, we've got some brainstorming that can take place that can accomplish anything that can look at work arounds, or make connections. Who is the network person who has some expertise or connections with a community business owner who doesn't need a certain product anymore? Or is upgrading as computers? Why not at tap into these resources? And if we don't have different perspectives around the table, and we're just asking the administrator to come up with all the ideas? And the answer is no, then we're really losing out on what you said earlier about the community, and what we can do to build that community and make those connections and really empower the community to be part of our educational system.

Joi Patterson: 34:31

So this is good. This is a very good list. Amy. I want to go back to number one as we n and we talked when we talk about hire promising people because we're doing this segment on retention. So you're going to have some administrators to say, Okay, you just talked about we have a teacher shortage and then you tell me to hire promising people. How do I hire promising people during the time in which we have a teacher shortage Which,

Amy Vujaklija: 35:00

at Governors State University, our programs are growing, they're growing exponentially. And I know that in secondary English education, I have three times the number of candidates coming into my methods class next fall than I do right now. So administrators communicate with your local University, your teacher preparation programs, keep those lines of communication open, and we need placements, we need filled experience. We need observation opportunities in the classroom. Don't make it too much of a hurdle or an obstacle to get into the classroom. Ta Absolutely. Teachers who you really value and see if they're willing to have that one to one partnership with the University themselves. Don't be the gatekeeper. So open those lines of communication, especially with the governor State University because you're we are in the south suburbs ready with new candidates begging to be in your schools.

Joi Patterson: 36:16

Yeah, and we have opportunities for you to grow your own. And when you take those opportunities of growing your own, like with your paraprofessionals, it gives you opportunity to go down this list all over again, right to have those growth opportunities to value them and to make an increase their quality. So hopefully this list is very helpful, I think is very doable for the teaching field for an administrators to implement. And

Amy Vujaklija: 36:47

I think if we can just take bite sized pieces, make a nice strong foundation and make teaching an attractive profession. So if

Joi Patterson: 37:01

anyone wants to talk to Dr. Amy or myself, please reach out to us about teacher retention. You Amy by

Amy Vujaklija: 37:10

great conversation today Joi. Thank you for listening to teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi. Visit our website at govst.edu/teaching and leading podcast to see the show notes from this episode.

Joi Patterson: 37:31

We appreciate Governor State University's work behind the things to make publishing possible. Stay tuned for more episodes with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi