Reboot: Mentoring Aged-Out Foster Youth with Mr. Nicholas Neal

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

youth, college, support, aged, state, pay, Indiana, program, foster youth, system, age, school, apartment, success, talk, mentor, organizations, listeners, challenge, live

SPEAKERS

Joi Patterson, Nicholas Neal, Amy Vujaklija

Nicholas Neal: 00:03

So success looks a whole lot of different ways to anybody, but for us as an as an agency making a difference and then in for that particular youth So in particular, you may or may not go to college. But at the end of the cycle for us, what have we all been able to accomplish?

Amy Vujaklija: 00:18

This episode was originally released under the podcast titled teaching and learning theory versus practice. This rebooted episode has been migrated to teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joy. I am Dr. Amy Vujaklija, Director of educator preparation.

Joi Patterson: 00:37

And I am back to Joy Patterson, Chief Diversity Officer. Our podcast addresses issues through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion, along with solutions for us to grow as educators.

Amy Vujaklija: 00:53

So join us on our journey to become better teachers and leaders. So let's get into it. Good morning, Dr. Amy. Good morning, Dr. Joy. So how are you this morning?

Joi Patterson: 01:07

I am wonderful. The sun is bright. I'm feeling great. I am wonderful. And I am so excited about our next topic. This is a very important topic, a social just topic and probably one that people don't know much about. We're going to talk about aged out foster you.

Amy Vujaklija: 01:29

Whenever you first mentioned it to me, I'll have to admit I knew very little information. I didn't know that there was such a thing as a mentorship program or aged out youth. What happens when my children in foster care reach 18?

Joi Patterson: 01:49

Yes, and there's 23,000 foster youth right now that are aged out. That's unbelievable. So but we have an expert to help us understand more about aged out youth. We're going to talk to Mr. Nicholas Neal. And he's going to inform us and our listeners about aged out you what we need to know and how we can support.

Amy Vujaklija: 02:14

Nicholas Neil is the Director of Program Development at Geminus Regional Health System. So he's a successful management executive with a proven track record of provoking change and providing effective thought leadership within an organization. exceptional ability to manage day to day operations to balance budgets, lead and coach employees on exceeding business objectives, and executing solid business plans designed to enhance existing product and service offerings. His specialties include, but are not limited to launching multiple public safety and social service programs for state and local government agencies, building teams of highly qualified case managers, and public service advocates. He is effective collaboration, experience and a proven ability to integrate multiple business units within an organization to achieve a common goal. I'm looking forward to speaking to Nicholas Neal today about his experience and what our community can do to help aged out youth.

Nicholas Neal: 03:28

Good morning,

Joi Patterson: 03:29

Mr. Nicholas Neil, how are you?

Nicholas Neal: 03:32

I'm pretty good. How about yourself?

Joi Patterson: 03:34

Good. It looks like you're multitasking. Thank you for giving us some time this morning.

Nicholas Neal: 03:39

Anytime, anytime.

Joi Patterson: 03:41

We are so interested in this topic. And we know that many people don't know much about aged out foster youth. So just starting right off, can you tell us what constitutes really an aged out foster you? How many are there? You know, I know there's like 23,000 in the US, but how many are there in your area, and give us kind of an idea of how significant this challenge is.

Nicholas Neal: 04:08

So currently, one of the programs that we have through the Department of Child Services is the older youth services and we get and deal with all of the children or older youth who are in foster care. They can age out at the age of 23. Governor Holcomb passed a bill about two years ago, which extended it from 21 to 23, which means that they can still receive some form of state benefits. Until that time, we currently have a census of about 191 youth in our care of those the ones who are close to aging out or about 52 And so those 52 youth are getting ready to establish themselves as young adults prior to doing that, but we try to come in and do what these youth are. Provide them with a stable home environment, which is we help them get an apartment which is paid for by the state up until a certain age. So we what we want them to do is what we're paying for the apartment is for them to save their money while they're working. Because in order to get the apartment and it gets somebody's benefits, they need to be in school and full time, halftime or have a job, or some type of trade school, any of those things will suffice for us to be able to assist with rent utilities and groceries for a period between the ages of 18 to 21. From 21 to 23, they have limited access to funds. But our hope is that by the time they get to that age, they have saved quite a bit of their funds to be able to do those things. Some of the challenges is that it's you know, it sounds really easy, what I'm telling you, but some of our youth have been traumatized, whether it's mentally, emotionally, physically, psychologically, spiritually. And so those challenges would come when those youth are not willing to participate, believe it or not, we have a lot more youth and tell us they don't want to participate. And they can enter the program with no, no recourse because they're adults. So it's hurtful and frustrating at times. But it's really because of the way they grew up with the environment and what they're used to. They're tired of what they will call deem a structure, even though the structures in place to help them and assist them.

Amy Vujaklija: 06:07

So tell us a little bit about the structures or the phases of the program, what kind of support and how is that scaffolded to help them be independent.

Nicholas Neal: 06:18

So we break it down into three sections, we call them budget one, budget two on budget. And budget one, you're between the ages of 16 and 18. And you're living typically in a foster home, the long term first of all, with no chance of going on. And during that time, we cover things like driver's education, anything that a youth that take up if you have children, think of anything that your children need, at those ages, between six and 18, we're covering that. And then they're in a foster home, which they're being paid for to live there, the foster parent gets a stipend as well. So we try to keep things as normal as possible in that regard. Once we hit 18, we're graduating high school, we're getting ready to go to college, or college is our favorite party, if they want to go to trade school and they want to get a full time job. At that point, that's when we come in with the apartment, we help them get an apartment can get a lease together, we pay for that apartment for three years 18 and 21. But their 21st birthday, we cover groceries and utilities, they get their groceries once a month, utilities. So the goal then at that point is that we're training and helping them to learn how to save money. If we're paying your rent of $850. Well, but it's you're putting up your money because you're working or you're in school. And you're saving that so that once you're 21, and that 100% assistance stops, then we come and we pay cell phone bills as well. Once you become 21, then it comes down to a tiered system you are really $4,500 left to utilize. But with the hope is that you have saved your money you've been turned out to say we do financial literacy classes. They live in skills, soft skills, how to live on your own, all those things are happening throughout the course of those three years. And we're hoping that between 21 and 23, you need a little to no assistance so that that money that's there for you when you turn 23, the state turns those dollars over to you. And then you're officially what we call aged out of the system.

Joi Patterson: 08:11

Have you noticed the impact from the governor's decision to extend that program from age 21? To 23?

Nicholas Neal: 08:20

Absolutely, I do see a lot more of the youth engaged. Now we didn't just take over this particular contract. But I've I've worked with the youth now for over 12 years. And so I can see a difference in the engagement because there's help that is still there. Because what happened at 21 was you get cut off. And we all know that in Vegas 21. We don't know everything. Still don't know everything when you started but really at 21. You don't know what? And so that was extra two years are helpful. They really are.

Joi Patterson: 08:49

Yeah, I can imagine I'm thinking about you talked about this tier system and how they receive some financial support. And they go to the grocery store maybe once a month, and they have this type of support. And I'm thinking about when my children were 18-19 years old and the type of daily support that they may have needed. Is there any support that they can get on a regular basis, a daily basis, whether it's like social emotional support?

Nicholas Neal: 09:17

That's a great question. So that really depends on the involvement of the Human Services we can't make that you engage in services, for example, we may have will not answer our calls, or talk to us until it's time to pay rent. And we know that we're contractually we have to pay the rent. We have to they have to see us because they have to sign the receipt book for us to pay their rent. Some may be a little more needy, and they may call you they may want things so we have it on both ends, or they don't call you to get in trouble. So the support is there. We also put in addition to our caseworkers for the youth were assigned to we have other services that we can put in if they're willing to meet with those providers for therapy or mentoring. Any of those things are available but they have to be able to participate, we can't that's the one thing about this program is you can't force the older youth to do something that they don't want to do. And the state is clear on, they don't want to they don't have to, they only have to do what's really required. So sometimes they get that becomes a little tricky for us,

Amy Vujaklija: 10:17

our listeners, our K 12, educators, college educators, administrators, what is one area of need that you see for soon to be aged out youth or recently aged out who want to pursue higher education,

Nicholas Neal: 10:35

an issue with higher education? Education wise, if they're not interested in college, when they first become young adults, they don't have that on, they don't have that on their mind. So to me, it's been a push, which I don't personally agree with that. You have to tell them that college isn't for everybody, no, I, I tried to encourage the youth to go to college so that they can have some form of a degree. Because certain jobs like meal jobs and or factory jobs may not always be there. So I think the challenge is that a lot of these youth did not want to go to school, they become tired of school, by the time they graduate high school, they have so much structure between school, the growing up in the system, that they're tired to rules and regs. And to me, for some of them, college becomes more rules and regulations. So I think that's the challenge is just kind of get them to see that education is the way to go and higher education, continuing your growth, and turning that pattern, we can preach that to them. But we also have to be careful that we're not forcing that on because usually, when you force something on a youth, they're gonna go the other way.

Amy Vujaklija: 11:37

That's true. That forcing of an idea of saying, you have to do this can be really detrimental. But an invitation can often the encouraging. So what can colleges and universities do? Or what can high school counselors do to attract foster youth to education?

Nicholas Neal: 12:01

I think more presentations, what I mean by presentation, not just a group of people, I think that what I've seen from some of the youth and coming up with a system, one on one works best for smaller groups, instead of getting 12 to 15 children or youth in the room to try to have a conversation about college. It's just not gonna work. You get yourself three to five small groups like that. And I think he may be able to drive the message home a little bit better that way. Yeah. And I know that many states have reinstituted free college tuition for foster youth at one time it was taken away. Is that the case for Indiana? Do they receive free college tuition? Some of them do. Some of that gets tricky, because I don't know all the language works for that. The few that we have had, we've been in state, they've been able to get it. I know that the 21st century scholar program is still a thing, because we still fill out those applications, because we just took this contract in July. And we did about four of those for some of the youth that were going to college. So we did have a graduating class, we did send them out school that we're going to college. So

Joi Patterson: 13:04

they're considered independent. Right. So as foster you at 18, they're considered independent. So I imagine, qualify, under those guidelines. Do you have any partnerships with colleges and universities.

Nicholas Neal: 13:20

I have not gotten that far yet. I'm six months into this, but I hope to make some partnerships with especially with like IU because it was really close to us to get the location and Gary and the Purdue campus and Hammond and then we have some others, the Purdue campus out in North Central was we'll call it area. So we're looking to try to get that established, you know,

Joi Patterson: 13:41

right, and we're looking forward to helping on that front, too. So we'd like to talk further about what that partnership could look like to attract. But beyond attracting these students, we want to be able to support so that we can retain them and they can persist through college. Our research shows us that even those that go to college, now the persistence is very low. The graduation rate is extremely low. I read one article that's only 3% There's only a 3% chance that they will graduate, which is just an extremely Oh, yeah, that so this, but it's hopeful. To me. As sad as that is, this gives me lots of hope. And that what amazing things a partnership can do to attract them because the goal is I mean, you're setting them up, and you're giving them a springboard right? But the goal is is for it to catapult them to a successful adulthood. And college is just one way it's not the only way but one way to give them that success.

Amy Vujaklija: 14:50

But think about success. I mean, how do you define success for for these aged-out youth?

Nicholas Neal: 14:58

So success looks a whole lot of different way as anybody, but for us as as an agency making a difference and for that particular youth. So in particular, you may or may not go to college. But at the end of the cycle for us, what have we all been able to accomplish? One of the big things I think is key is that they all have driver's license, if you want my opinion, I think people need to learn how to drive you need to be because you can't get yourself someplace, you're never gonna go anywhere. So I think we're looking at simple things from that. Did we finish high school? No, we did finish high school and you said you didn't you didn't want to go to college, what were your dreams, what were your aspirations was an apprenticeship that you wanted, that we complete that we that we can follow up, make sure every step of the way you add support that you need it to continue in that endeavor. When we get to the living situation, we found your place because they they they have a hand in finding a place they want to stay. And we go we do apartment shopping as well, we furnish the apartment, all those things that we teach them every step of the way that we were we there? Can you honestly say that? You know, I helped Michael, with everything that he needed either sit and say, Well, you pick something and we'll go pick it up? Did we actually go do it, I think the action of doing as opposed just saying I'm supposed to pay for it, it hits a little differently. And I think for us, that's what success looks like, is we were there with you, we assisted you. So we get into your journey, whatever that journey may be a college degree, or an apprenticeship or a steady job. And I'm gonna say steady job, I don't mean that your steady job is working at JC Penney's until you're 20. Once you've paid your rent, I mean a steady job where you can hang your hat on a potential career or further growth where you're at. I think that's how we can measure success for some of the youth that were involved in. Also, what we see a lot of youth when they get out of a system, they may want to reengage with the bio family support a visit of that. And sometimes that can be a little tricky, because the bio family kind of been but a dangerous environment or not a good setting. And so now that the youth is, quote, unquote, independent, but still under the guise of the program receiving these funds, what are we doing to make sure that should have been taken advantage of which has happened, just one of the short six months that we've had the contract? So it's just those kind of things that get in your mind and you try to work out and figure out what can you do? How can you do it?

Joi Patterson: 17:09

What about your personal goal? So beyond the agent, go for your personal goal? And what do you see as success?

Nicholas Neal: 17:17

Me, personally, I want these kids to go to college, I want each kid that I come in contact with young adults become kids, young adults, to go to college and further educate themselves. Especially when you see them, they think that they can only do so much. And you have so much you can do whatever you want, the sky's the limit, man, but have a conversation with some of them. So they can understand whether it's for me or somebody on my team. But I personally like to see each person at least at some college, because you know, you don't know what you don't like him for you to you know. And so for me, I need everybody to try to go to college, really coming out of coming out of high school along the way, at least give it a shot. And let's see, what can we do. Because once you have a college degree, I think that it can help you later on in life. So that's a personal goal. Second goal of mine that I want to see from the youth is just to develop some of those interpersonal skills that we sometimes lack. And we have a mental health facility attached to our company or regional health systems. And if there's additional support needed, linking them. And when I say linking, I don't say, you know, here's a pamphlet, look, hey, man, I'm gonna drive this point, I want you to go in there, I want you to sit down and meet with Dr. Whomever. And let's just see if we can't get to the root of so much of problems issues are. And some some of these are difficult. I think Dr. Joi, you know, one in particular who's, who's been a challenge for us. But if they're willing to participate, you have to be there for me to show make sure I know. So it's a fine line between holding their hand and then giving them something. So you want to make sure you're not holding a hand, I'm not going to take that appointment, go in and be a part of your therapy session. I think that something needs to be some kind of separation there. But if you want to go, I'm going to take you I don't want it to be a barrier that I'm scared to go I don't I don't have a ride, or can you take them. So those things kind of being there for that support. I want us to be as supportive as possible when it comes to these older youth because, honestly, they're used to folks, you know, walking away, that's a personal thing of mine.

Joi Patterson: 19:13

When I look at the stats, they're just really astonishing when you talk about like their seven out of 10 girls that become pregnant and finish that have PTSD and some of the trauma that they have experienced. It seems like this has to be a team effort. And you talk about kind of the theory of teach them how to fish instead of giving them the fish right, so that they can be successful on their own. How is it that the community can help support these efforts?

Nicholas Neal: 19:47

It depends on what formula community we're talking about. Typically, I've just been me the way I where I grew up, always reach out to the churches first. I can get a lot more support that way. But even when it's time for events like Christmas and graduation, some of these agencies given out donations for these not only hand-me-down but brand new stuff. Know that let them know that you know they have a voice here this is this is something for you. While they say it can always be something physical to give, but it goes a long way when you give somebody something that's brand new as opposed something that's used or worn more community awareness in terms of events for the youth who are coming out of the system, I would like to see not just churches, but organizations, big organizations like Amazon or Walmart, have some kind of program that could help the older youth in the system as they become a little older because they're going to age out. So I want to do this on an aging out there someone that type of systems because the state of Indiana can always be your assistant. So these big organizations who donate all the time, these charities all throughout the year, what about some of them stepping up, and being able to do something like that?

Amy Vujaklija: 20:52

And when we think about success, what role might mentors have in these individuals success, their success stories? And who do you need as mentors?

Nicholas Neal: 21:03

Well, mentors play a key role, because that's typically who our youth are going to talk to, when things get rough. I like you to look like everything people say what they need to look like to use, I don't think so. I think that a mentor can be anyone, anyone that can model a behavior that is different from a behavior that they're used to looking at someone who was successful person who takes care of themselves can see that they've provided a great life for themselves. I think that that goes a long way. Because they youth can then say, I can be that way. This is my mentor, I've been exposed to some of these things, I can see these things. I want this. And so when you start to see that and you want this, then you talk about how can I get that? And so I think that a mentor can be anyone, anyone who can show you a better path than what you're on right now.

Amy Vujaklija: 21:52

So often we talk about, well, you can't be what you can't see. So it doesn't matter, the WHO it's the behavior that we need to be modeling and showing this is possible, you know, talking about any hardships or any obstacles that the person is gone through over the years to get to where they are, it's not always a perfect pathway. But if we can make that visible for these youth, they can then perhaps have that that same ambition, that same motivation.

Nicholas Neal: 22:26

I agree. I agree totally.

Joi Patterson: 22:28

And I'm going to put out that invitation again, to you that we want to be part of that support system, we want to invite you at a later date to come out to the university, talk to the university, we like to hear the stories, we'd like for you to give us some resources, share the experiences, talk about how we can help how we can engage them, and not when they're 18. But perhaps when they're 16. And to think about them, sure, and so that they know what some of their options are. And I like that you're focusing on the community, the churches and other agencies that can help you because again, this is one of those areas where I think it really takes a village, if we're going to have a successful impact, because the alternative, I don't think we really want to even talk about the alternative. And the statistics that come with those alternatives, that if they're not successful, then what happens to them because we're talking about a large amount of you. I know that you're working with, you know, about 150 50 More coming in. But there's over 1000 in Lake County, the large number of youth that you have to the responsibility of finding housing and all of the support. So I think that the more we understand, the more that we can support. So I just can't thank you enough for sharing this information. We look forward to talking to you

Nicholas Neal: 23:55

again, anytime, anytime.

Amy Vujaklija: 23:58

And I think it's important that, like you said, each individual has a story. And sometimes it's just a matter of taking that story and turning it into something positive. Before we end today, though, can you direct us to any resources, many books, websites or people who can provide our listeners with more information on this topic of aged out youth?

Nicholas Neal: 24:22

I would go with Lake County, Indiana Department of Child Services. There is a person she works in Indianapolis, her name is Nisa Evans. She is in charge of the entire state of Indiana as it pertains to the older youth initiative. And she would be able to probably share with more data that looks at him outside of just like counting she can look at the whole state. Other ways if you're looking to partner and work with some of the youth foster care agencies in the area that whose parents have some of these kids so just to name a few that I know of the villages are located in Portage, Indiana. We have dockside I believe Darkseid is located in Highland, One benchmark Family Services. They're in Merrillville, Indiana. Nayak, national youth advocate program. They're big into foster care. They're in Merriville, they're actually right across the street from me in my building. So those are just a few of the folks that you did that work with foster parents and youth who are in the system. And some of them may be opened up further conversations at the villages, the contact person is Julie Villareal NIAP, you'll have Sue Anne Klein, she is the manager of that office. So those are just some kind of context to kind of get you going. But your best data will come from a Nissa Evans or what have the entire state.

Joi Patterson: 25:43

We appreciate that you are certainly a Rolodex as well. We really appreciate that.

Nicholas Neal: 25:48

I may look young, but I've been around a while.

Joi Patterson: 25:50

I know you have, and you know the business.

Amy Vujaklija: 25:53

Thank you so much for being with us today. I really learned so much. And I know our listeners have to.

Joi Patterson: 26:00

Yes, this is definitely an education. Thank you. We're looking forward to partnering with you and learning more about your work and how to support you.

Nicholas Neal: 26:09

All right. Well, thank you all for having me. Anytime I come back. This was fun. I learned a lot to

Joi Patterson: 26:15

Mr. Nicholas Neil. Thank you.

Nicholas Neal: 26:17

Thank you. You guys. Have a great day.

Amy Vujaklija: 26:19

Thank you for listening to teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi. Visit our website at govst.edu/teaching and leading podcast to see the show notes from this episode.

Joi Patterson: 26:37

We appreciate Governor State University's work behind the things to make publishing possible. Stay tuned for more episodes with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi