Enhancing Inclusion for Individuals with Disabilities with Ms. Angela Szczepanik-Sanchez

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

students, disability, work, disabilities, services, higher education, transition, education, support, accommodations, individuals, conversation, belonging, college, classroom, diagnosis

SPEAKERS

Joi Patterson, Amy Vujaklija, Angela Szczepanik-Sanchez

Angela Szczepanik-Sanchez: 00:03

being equitable and inclusive, and creating that sense of belonging is just getting to know each individual, whether it's staff that you work with students that you work with, we all want to be heard. Welcome to

Amy Vujaklija: 00:17

our podcast teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi. I am Dr. Amy Vujaklija, Director of educator preparation.

Joi Patterson: 00:27

And I am Dr. Joi Patterson, Chief Diversity Officer. Our podcast addresses issues through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion, along with solutions for us to grow as educators. So

Amy Vujaklija: 00:43

join us on our journey to become better teachers and leaders. So let's get into it. Hello, Dr. Joi.

Joi Patterson: 00:52

Hello, Dr. Amy, how are you?

Amy Vujaklija: 00:55

I am fantastic. We are on such a cutting edge topic right now with a fantastic person to talk to.

Joi Patterson: 01:07

Yeah, I think many people can relate to this. Because we've certainly experienced what we're going to talk about here, Governor State University. You know, when you and I broached the subject. We're talking about individuals with disabilities, but we're talking about it in a different way. I mean, how many times have we had this conversation about individuals with disabilities, and we're talking about things like accessibility, but this gets us a little bit further. We're we're actually talking about the person and a sense of belonging. So I am super excited about this conversation. I don't know how it's going to go, but I'm excited for it. Me

Amy Vujaklija: 01:48

too, and it's always such a delight to talk to miss Angela shamanic Sanchez. We are delighted to have her as one of our staff members, one of our colleagues. She serves as the Director of Student Disability Services, also known as Access Services for Students with Disabilities, a SSD in the Academic Resource Center, another acronym aarC in the Division of Student Affairs at Governor State University. Miss japonica Sanchez transitioned into adjunct faculty for the College of Education and staff in Disability Services in higher education after teaching and case management in the pre K through 12 public school systems for the state of Illinois and both general education and special education. And I'm going to say Angela, our colleague and friend, completed a Bachelor of Science in Elementary Education magna cum laude, a at Calumet College at St. Joseph, a Master of Education at National Louis University, and a Master of Science in Education at Indiana University Northwest. Angela is an active member of the learning disabilities Association of America Association on Higher Education and Disability and Illinois, Iowa ahead. Angela also serves on the Illinois Board of Higher Education, Disability Services Advisory Council Committee, and the Diversity Equity and Inclusion council at Governor State University to help provide support, guidance and direction to create a supportive and positive, accessible and inclusive sense of belonging for all students and employees. So, welcome to our podcast. Thank

Angela Szczepanik-Sanchez: 03:57

you. Good afternoon. Thank you for having me. Good

Joi Patterson: 04:00

afternoon, Angela. Sure. ponics Fine. CEV Angela, and I just full disclosure, we're all friends. I think Angela and I have been knowing each other for about 20 years. There was something that you read in Angela's bio about she received her Bachelor of Science in Elementary Education at Calumet College of St. Joseph at that time, I was the chair of the Education program before becoming a provost. And she was a shining star then. So we reconnected I think we started sending student teachers to her once she was teaching and she was working on her master's degree. We found out she was working on her master's degree. When she finished. We were like, can you teach Can you adjunct and then we hired her as Director of Disability at Calumet College of St. Joseph. And then Governor State University stole her from us. Guess what? I had to follow her so far. So we reconnected here at Governor State University. And Angela is still doing a superb job, and really implementing new best practices, and working with students with disabilities. And I say that for a reason, because we can just become so stagnant, and how we help students and students change, they evolve. And so she's been able to evolve with them. And she's been able to inform us. So I'm looking forward to the conversation today with you, Angela. So now that I've given your journey, maybe you can tell us your, your journey to becoming an administrator for students with disabilities, and talk about what you enjoy most about your profession. And if you can also tell us what are some of those frustrations that you have as well. So

Angela Szczepanik-Sanchez: 05:59

thank you so much for that fantastic introduction, I think I'm pretty fantastic on a regular, but you know, it's kind of nice to hear it out there every now and then, as a reminder for just in general, all of the work that we as educators do within the education profession. I mean, it really takes a lot of learning and love advocation and awareness around all of the work that we do to create professional development for ourselves, in growing in our fields, but also going through those ages and stages with our students. So in talking about that a little bit about my ages and stages, you know, kind of growing up, I was always one of those within my community who was, you know, doing the babysitting, you know, working in the church, with the youth programs, doing tons of extracurricular activities within my neighborhood and programming where, you know, I would do coaching and mentoring with, you know, youth. So, you know, my parents are always one of those who said, I think your path is going to be something essentially, where you're going to be working very closely independently, and some nature of you know, helping people but more along the lines of helping people whose voices aren't always heard. And of course, through your early in Middle Ages and Stages, and you know, going into college, you're never going to do the path that your parents choose, right. So there, I found myself starting out, you know, as an undergrad, away from home, ready to take on the world and going into accounting, business and finance, getting into those classes and realizing that wasn't me as a person. I'm very social, I'm very engaged, I like to learn, I like to network, I like to problem solve, I like to help. And not that you don't do that in that field. But it's a very different way of doing that. And so as I got into my social work classes, my psychology classes, I had a little intro class, like into kind of figuring out your fields and what you wanted. And of course, I scored high in all the areas of all those things in education that my parents are like, see, we know what we're talking about. So I quickly found myself after a year or two of my undergrad, coming back home and switching into education. And so I continued that journey at Kelly mycologist St. Joseph, where I was very blessed to be in a format that I needed as a student at that time, kind of in my life. And in my academic journey, where it was smaller classes, instructors who were very hands on and engaging acclimate to you in the community and really prepared you to be that educator, for those for those students that you are going to be serving, but also treating you as an individual where you were in your life and meeting you and your needs, whether you were a student with a disability or not, I was a student at that time, who had a two year old child. So I really resignate in the nature of what I do since transitioning into higher education, and serving a whole person, a whole student. You know, they have life happenings. They have education happenings, they're at many different ages and stages. And so oftentimes, that little bit of my journey, figuring out who I was going to be in life, and just the trials and tribulations I had throughout my undergraduate program, and finding a place where I belonged. And through that belonging, I was able to be successful, which led me to learn to be where I am today. And so I like to share that story with students that I work with on a regular also, because I think sometimes we've gotten to where we are, and they don't always understand that sometimes maybe we've come along some of the similar paths that they have. So I always keep that in the nature of what I do on a on a regular basis. So people understand that she or I may sit here looking as this most professional person who has it all together. But you know, it's taken me a lot to get there and that's okay. But I've also had people who have guided me through that and great connections I've made who not only start out as your supervising Teachers who not only start out as your chairs of your education department or program, but who also become friends and confidants, and professional colleagues throughout your journey, so you just never know where that path is going to go. And so I really keep that with me on a regular everyday when I work with students to really take the time to get to know who they are, where they are in their life and their program, what their needs are, what their expectations are, their strengths or weaknesses, their worries, their concerns, things that make them part of who they are. And so they really do feel like they belong, like they're being heard, and that they do have someone who understands where they're coming from, and can help them track those trials and those tribulations. And of course, most importantly, in the work that I do advocate for those who sometimes feel stigmatized, don't feel it's always a safe space to share. And so opening up that space and making it feel safe, that it's okay to ask for support and help and utilize those services. So I think sometimes that's a little bit of my frustration, is when it takes a lot for students to feel that they can open up that dialogue or conversation, maybe because of experiences they've had in their life, not necessarily Governor State University related, but just in life in general. And we also see a lot of students who had very intense services throughout their K 12 educational experiences, who then break free from that, because now they're an adult, and they're in college, and they don't want to be identified as that. And so what does that look like, you know, when you finally meet with a student, you know, who's taken that opportunity in that journey to say like, Okay, what's next? So, so that's where things sometimes get a bit frustrating, is just, you know, really working the best I can within our campus community, to help folks understand to have a little bit of compassion, be open to conversations with students, even if it's not related to their academics, just their life, because you might become that person that is their confidant that they just needed to be heard that day. And so outside of just accommodating and disabilities and support services, I really just like to stress within that being equitable and inclusive. And creating that sense of belonging is just getting to know each individual, whether it's staff that you work with students that you work with, we all want to be heard,

Amy Vujaklija: 12:26

right and belonging in college, it's challenging for even some of our most social students. But for students with physical or hidden disabilities, belonging can be that much more challenging. And you spoke a little bit about what you do individually in your role as the director of Access Services. What is the student do to start the conversation? And I'm sure you see students who've had extensive services up to college, and they don't want to continue the services. But some who may have had limited services and find that they need more in college. I'm sure you're pulled in both extremes of that situation, what what does that look like for a student to have that conversation with you or other people in the department.

Angela Szczepanik-Sanchez: 13:20

So I think when students come in and we start those conversations, it's really just understanding where the student is in that moment. So where they are and understanding what their disability or diagnosis is, where they are with that in their coursework. So if they've previously had accommodations, maybe not here at Governor state, but maybe at another institution, if they'd had support services through out there, K to 12. Or if they're brand new to you know, having a diagnosis or disability and don't really know how to gauge accommodations. So it's getting to understand where students are in that process and their journey. And then those conversations are going to look different and what those next steps are that guidance is, depending on how much support they're going to need from us as a staff, how much outreach we need to do on their behalf to you know, their instructors, or it might even be other offices or areas that we have to reach out to, but really helping the student understand their strengths, their weaknesses, what they understand about their disability or diagnosis, if it's new, what that's going to look like, and you know, what accommodations are available here at Governors State, and helping them understand how that translates into a college classroom? For those students transitioning in who have had support services, you know, in K to 12, or a higher level throughout high school, what does that look like now here in a college classroom versus a high school classroom? You know, what is it that translates from an individualized education plan? Or a 504 plan? What does that look like when in higher education? Haitian you can utilize that as a form of documentation or verification to qualify for accommodations. But those same exact services don't translate into higher education. Right, so becomes education around that for students in their families that may be involved. And even helping instructors understand that because some instructors might have been in the K to 12 system, and now they're new to teaching in higher education. Other instructors, maybe this is the first semester they're receiving a letter of accommodations, and they don't even know what that means. So really looking at all of those different ways that our office does outreach, education, awareness, advocacy, professional development, trainings, workshops, correspondence that we put out there. So as best as we can, we can shape that language where it is inclusive, is language, that's, you know, I can give a lot of language, like when you go to the doctor, and you say, can you say that and the patient terms and not the doctor terms? You know, it's the same for us and access services. As you know, I can give a lot of language around all things disability services that other professionals within my field or an education, I understand. But when you're speaking to a student, you know, that's going to sound a look a little different what that is.

Joi Patterson: 16:17

So I'm glad you mentioned inclusion. And just like we were talking about, we've had lots of conversations about accessibility for individuals who have disabilities. And today, we're going to try to push that a little bit further and talk more about inclusion. In fact, you know, we're going to air this episode in March for Disability Awareness Month. But I want to talk about the difference between awareness and actually being comfortable with students with disability. You know, I want us to get us beyond ADA. From your perspective. Can you talk more about awareness? And we definitely need to be aware because I think knowledge comes first. Knowledge comes before our heart, right? versus our comfortability, with students with individuals with disabilities, whether they're a student or an employee.

Angela Szczepanik-Sanchez: 17:13

Absolutely. So when we think of awareness, we think of it in ways of, for example, going into March with Dell, Developmental Disabilities Awareness Month, right. So that's more of just some education and background around what developmental disabilities are, why that month exist, resources and support services that may resignate to those students here within our campus community, or, you know, just that are offered within our state system. But the other side of that awareness is awareness in the sense of more of what you mentioned, joy and helping people have a comfortability with the language of disability or interacting and engaging with someone that may not look the same, or learn the same or think the same or communicate the same, right? So how do we approach those things, you know, if there is someone who is a wheelchair user, if there is someone who's deaf or hard of hearing, someone who needs an interpreter, throughout the means of their educational career, whether it's in the classroom or activities outside of someone who socially communicating is a challenge, no, they're not one that you can maybe necessarily engage with that you would with others, and kind of understanding those cues. Because oftentimes, certain kinds of communication or dialogue or interaction with some folks with disabilities, people may be offset by that or feel disrespected in those ways or don't understand that that's not, that's the way that they respond. It doesn't mean to be disrespectful or not engaged in the classroom or in a conversation, or within peer relation is just those are things that we need to be made aware of. And I think a governor state, you know, from an essence, those are the things that we're visiting and through our D Ay ay ay b, lunch and learns, through interviews like this, you know, utilizing the podcast, nature of things that us with the access services for students with disability staff, that we look at, things that we do within the Academic Resource Center. So when we talk about education, awareness, advocacy, professional development, those are the things that we know. So there's lots of different ways that we can have conversations around that. And now we're finding that you know, what works well is getting into classrooms. So that way we're in it, we're interacting, and we're engaging right in that moment, you know, in the dialogue of the instruction with the instructor with the students and then you know, taking notes from there if things need to be revisited or talked about, and then doing outreach to our student population and our staff and faculty population of you know, what, getting feedback from them, what do you see what do you feel how do you You feel what these interactions are engagements are? What do you think awareness is? What do you think advocacy is? What do you think diversity, equity inclusion is, you know, what is belonging, everyone has different language and definitions to what that looks like for them. So I think it's really just finding commonality and understanding around those things. And that becomes a better sense of community and support for

Amy Vujaklija: 20:25

all. And I'm glad you asked about, you know, what does this mean? What does it mean to be compliant? What does it mean to belong? What does equity mean? We talked about access for Disability Services. And when we think about ADA or accessible design Act, the compliance in our published documents, universal design, even ramps or other architectural modifications, but it also makes me think when everything compliance, it's, it's almost got that same flavor of the as the word tolerance. And when I hear tolerance, I think, well, we can tolerate, but what about acceptance? What about pushing further and going into inclusion without pushing further into ally ship? And so there's that continuum. So I'm wondering about what happens when we look beyond the technical? And consider those less tangible concepts like social interactions and other skills? When can we move beyond compliance and push into ally ship? What does that look like? And

Angela Szczepanik-Sanchez: 21:37

I think for that a lot of it is just helping people have a sense of compassion for what it is that people their different learning styles, they're the different forms of access that they need. And a lot of that does go back to what you mentioned, Amy, and in that universal design, that universal design overall, is not just accessing the learning environment, but it's access into social events and activities that we have on campus and within the campus community. And outside of that, you know, whether it's things that we are hosting as GSU, or outside as hosting here at GSU, how do we help people understand that those things are there? And that when they are presented or available? How are we involving everyone to be a part of that, and then have the access that they need within that. And then structurally, when we look at our, you know, our building components, that's the nature of where I really work, in the midst of many things, you know, multiple committees and events and venues that you're in throughout the campus, kind of putting those voices out there. So certain conversations aren't siloed. It's not just coming from the ASSD office, it's not just coming from diversity, equity inclusion, it's not just coming from the faculty side, or the staff side, or that Senator, that center to that committee, it's really what you mentioning, is that ally ship amongst all of us, all of us working together for that same, that same goal, you know, a goal of it shouldn't just come from that office, or that area or that person, it should be something that we're really working to together. And we know that any goals that we set, you know, we start small, right? And we work toward those things, and then how are we tracking those things? And so I think we're really working toward that, you know, I can just say, from the nature of what I do in ASSD, but just the way I'm also involved in other aspects of the campus community that, you know, I definitely think also just as a state and higher education in general, you're seeing a lot more of what we're discussing today. And I will say in, in my years and being in higher education, which I feel like the more and more I say my years in places, I'm like, boy, I really get into that age or like, you know, I've been in there for so long. But I would like to say that I definitely seen everything we're talking about today, really come to that table. And so I'm proud that I'm a voice at that table. I'm proud that I am a part of that table that can say that we're working. We're really working to make these things seen heard, accepted. And as you said, not just well, we should do it because we're being told no like, right.

Joi Patterson: 24:32

Yeah, no, you know, in this profession, and especially with ADA, things can be so litigious. So there's things that you have to do and you're right, be mindful of and I think we get so caught up when it comes to servicing students with disabilities and meeting the law that we get so hung up on checking all the boxes, we have to do these things, but what the law requires, so I'm very happy that we're having this conversation beyond that about tolerance, acceptance, inclusion, Ally, you know, because as we increase in the number of individuals who attend college with disabilities, the number of employees that we hire with disabilities that's increasing right now, I think we have about 12 13% of our employees indicate that they have some form of disability. And how should we be thinking about that? These are individuals that just happen to have a disability. Right? And how should we be thinking about how do we go beyond just being ADA compliant? And you know, online, you know, more aligned to what Amy was just speaking on?

Angela Szczepanik-Sanchez: 25:45

Yes, I agree, as you said, you know, there is the sense of what we, what we do, you know, what is mandated by the state, federal government, etc. But it can't just be that, you know, as you said, it, it has to go beyond that. And I just keep going back to what I say on a regular and even in our conversation today is, we're all individuals, like, we just really need to take the time, to get to know each other, understand each other, have a sense of compassion, like we hear hearing what we have to say, sharing what we have to say, I really think that becomes the social components, even belonging, feeling like you belong as an employee here, let alone feeling like you belong as a student here, right. Because what we speak upon for students, you know, it's the same for employees, you know, we want employees to feel that things are equitable, inclusive, that they have access, that they have a safe space to say, I have this disability, I have this diagnosis, you know, it's interesting to see where our number of employees are, because I mean, I can see that that number has grown in my time here. But it's also disheartening to see that it's not that much larger. For the number of students we're serving, that's as many students who are going to go out into the workforce, and then become part of those numbers. And maybe those are students who might find employment here within GSU, or already have a sense of employment as a student worker, work study, graduate assistant part time, so you know, extra help, things of that nature, that maybe they're receiving academic accommodations, but not the employee, you know, those accommodations? So I often get that question all the time. Well, how do I accommodate that in the classroom, Angela, because one day, they're going to be employed somewhere. There are accommodations and employment as well. But what we work to do is help students through that transition of once again, this is what it looks like in an educational environment. This is what that looks like in an employment environment, especially our students who have to do internships, practicum, student teaching, experiential hours, clinicals, there's so much that becomes, you are a student, but you're also employed at these places. Absolutely. So then it you know, it's it's working with those partners to help those places understand where our students are coming from, and you know, how they can be supported, I

Joi Patterson: 28:19

believe, and it was interesting what you said that, oh, that's a good number, that percentage is a good number. But you're surprised it's not even higher, because there is this stereotype. And there is this view that if I hire someone with a disability is going to somehow cost me more money. And that has been refuted. So there's lots of research that says that that doesn't happen. And we mentioned that there's more students with disabilities are entering college more individuals with disabilities joining the workforce, I have noticed that there's an increasing number of students and employees with different neurodivergent abilities. And they have always been there, but somehow, this topic has just been emerging lately. And Amy talked about earlier, some of these disabilities that you can't see. Right. So can you explain first what a neurodivergent disability is?

Angela Szczepanik-Sanchez: 29:20

Yeah, so when we think of neurodivergent disabilities, it's exactly as Amy and Joi mentioned, where they're not disabilities that you necessarily can see. So we call those the hidden disabilities. So our neurodivergent, you'll hear things of the nature of neurodiversity, neurodivergent, neurodivergent. Learners, there's a lot of language around it, and identification because many of the people in our world who identify as that they want to identify in the way that they would like to and not just be put into a box or a category. And so when we look at that many of these that you'll see mainly kind of that are put in that classification of neurodivergent, or neurodivergent. See are those individuals who are on the autism spectrum, and that can be individuals who are very high ability as far as their learning, but not so much socially, that can also be those who are very socially into but academics. And learning can be a challenge that also can be those with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, or attention deficit disorder. And then along with that, it also sometimes brings in for those kinds of learners a sense of anxiety that then sometimes leads to depressive states, because of the nature of where they are in their learning. And then that large social piece of it because they learn differently, and they think differently. And so when we go back to that conversation around interacting and engaging, and what does that look like? And I will say that, yes, as joining me mentioned, that population is growing not only in higher education, or just even in employment places, but here in Governor State University. And so as we as we see that these are individuals that oftentimes need a lot more acclimation transitional types of services, meeting a lot more with support services, and support with meeting with faculty. So they have an understanding of it's the way those students communicate the way those students learn the kinds of learning that they need and how they need access to that things, whether it's a lot of use of technology, whether that is very visual things, whether that is alternative texts, whether that's recording lectures. And so these are a lot of things that yeah, many students who don't identify as that use, but it's really that we go back to that social engagement and interaction and understanding that language that those students have and how we can best support them and faculty. And I think also just helping those students understand that, yes, we do provide support services here at Governor State University, but not necessarily the same kind of program that maybe other institutions do within our state or out of our state, where it does become more individualized. But I also feel in those programs. Many of those students are linked together like almost in a cohort model or style. So is that really inclusive, I don't want people to buy in, or have to listen to me say this is what you should do because of compliance or that's the right thing to do. I think it's just being I feel, you know, in teaching coursework, myself, and all ages and stages, from the littlest to the oldest. Once again, it goes back to getting to know that individuals in your class, I understand that many of us have large case loads and the aspect of what we do in our day to day, but for anyone to truly be successful, understood heard, I keep saying it, it goes back to getting to know that person, and it's so I could speak about neuro divergence. But in that same, right, anyone who identifies as that is still an individual, and what they need and how they socialize. And their ability to learn or not learn, or how advanced or not advanced, the art is going to look very different. And the only way we know those things is taking that opportunity to really connect with that person.

Amy Vujaklija: 33:31

I love I love that. So much things that really speaks to the educator in as in, especially in the K 12 setting. But even more those transitions to college can be just brutal. I mean, they can be so eye opening and isolating same time. And because of your experience, both with the littlest and the older, can you say a little bit more about the different transitions that students experience? I feel like we touched on it. But there are some differences with the kinds of services that are allowed or that carry through in the college setting. And I just want to kind of revisit that for a second because people know about ADA compliance. But what about ide a, and how do those intersect? And what does transition from the littles to the olders to the transition from K 12 to college, that we're talking also about a lot of college to career transition. So could you speak to some of those differences?

Angela Szczepanik-Sanchez: 34:45

Sure, certainly. So when we look at K to 12 education or pre K 12 education, what qualifies students who receive special education services is, as you mentioned, ami ID a individuals with DISA abilities Education Act, and that can allot students to receive either what we call a 504 plan, which is very similar to what we resignate here with in higher education, which is under the Americans with Disabilities Act sec, section 504, from K to 12, into higher education and then into on into employment is 504. Going back to K to 12, students can also qualify for what we call IEP or Individualized Education Plans or programs. And so those can start anywhere, generally from pre K and on. But most often, when we look at, say, pre K to second grade, a lot of those is a lot of response to intervention, and many interventions that are put in place prior to doing a classification or diagnosis or a full on evaluation, because oftentimes, it's just learning curves and stages that students need. And so we don't want to rush into that classification or that diagnosis, sometimes they just need a little time to catch up. So oftentimes, those students who qualify for a 504 IEP and pre K, that's well, sometimes what we say, and education is they graduate out of that. So they have that opportunity to then transition into that intermediate three to five, or middle school, junior high six to eight, and maybe not still receive services, but under more of those related support with that response to intervention, where they still get some remediation, but they just don't necessarily qualify for the means of that individualized education plan or program. But there are some students who have that developmental delay. And often sometimes we'll be the ones to transition out. But then we have other students within that pre K to two who then transition into that three to five, and then into that six to eight, where every three years that process is reevaluated. And every year, their current individualized education plan or program is revisited. And progress is checked to see where students have made that progress not made that progress. And they bring parents back to the table, they bring the general education teachers, and they bring out IT staff, whether it's psychologists if they have related services, like speech language, right? So throughout that kind of pre K to eight experience, once they get to about that seventh grade, they start talking about that IEP or 504 Transition Plan. So now what's that going to look like? Because now I'm going to have several different classes, several different teachers, who's going to be my, my special education teacher case manager, what do my services look like? Are they going to be in a classroom outside of the classroom? Am I going to be in a self contained room with all other students with disabilities? Or am I going to be included into the least restrictive environment with my regular general education peers. And so sometimes we'll see students from pre K to eighth, go into high school and have less supports because they've kind of graduated to that point where they don't need, or we've had other students who as their educational career goes on, they've needed added supports, where maybe they have a one on one who follows them throughout their entire day, right that paraprofessional who's with them all day, or part of the day, maybe they're taking all of their tests outside of the classroom environment with extra time or individually. And so with that being said, what does that look like when they come to higher education, and we don't rewrite an individualized education plan or program, we don't rewrite a 504 plan. All we do is utilize that as a tool to provide that verification and documentation of disability classification diagnosis. And we use what is in those plans or programs to help transition those services as best as we can into the Americans with Disabilities Act or section 504. And when we do that, I will say that can be a challenge because we a lot of those services that are high levels of support, such as having a paraprofessional part of the day or all day or with you all day, having someone who is in the classroom with you, being your reader, your note taker, those things can translate and transition into higher education, but they're not as as hands on. A lot of that responsibility comes on the students, and oftentimes the instructor teaching those courses. And so that's that's a shock to the system for all involved, because I'm so used to someone kind of making these decisions for me and making these things happen. And so when we look at sending out letters of accommodations and notifications, you know, sometimes we'll get asked why didn't I receive this note? have vacation sooner or how come I didn't get it the first day of class. Many times we're meeting with students multiple times, it takes a lot for them to understand what it is to now be considered right. And adults in a college classroom have different kinds of supports that they didn't have before, the new to disability new to utilizing services, they're transitioning in a lot of different ways in those moments. And so we want as best as we can have those conversations with students, and sometimes even meet with faculty and students before a notification of accommodations goes out. So there is a better understanding of what that support looks like for that, you know, that student. So that's why those communications can come out at different times. Or I might be working with a student, you know, in my class who has the same accommodations as someone else. But that doesn't necessarily mean that's with those students in the same very way, based upon previous supports they've had, or their current diagnosis or disability. So it takes a lot of meeting to kind of go through all those stages of transition. So looking back where they've been in their educational journey, but that also where they are now currently, wow,

Amy Vujaklija: 41:17

it will help our faculty to really understand is not just a matter of, oh, you need services, here's a letter, it is such a process. And I hope that it Governor State University, that we are walking the top, because you said that we're also preparing our students for careers, and there are accommodations and careers, but we come in our state, we also employees, so we need to be walking that talk and say, Yes, we're preparing you for a combination to here's how you approach a career, let us show you what it looks like to have a career in a place of acceptance and a place of belonging. And that's where you have are such a wonderful motto,

Angela Szczepanik-Sanchez: 42:07

I tell people, you know, I wake up every day and get you know, making my parents proud just trying to be the best person that I could be and and for all of the support I've had throughout my life. And those people who have touched me, I get emotional, you know, thinking about it or saying it. But I really think about that. Because when I have not felt heard, or I've had challenges, or I didn't think I could do it or be it or want it or have it, I really want to take that opportunity in the work that I do on a regular to ground myself in that. You know, and be mindful of that and just help others because I just know, in my experience, if anyone has had a path where they haven't had any challenges, well, lucky you. Because you know, so I just sometimes say just take a breath a moment and think about a time in your life where maybe it just didn't go the way you thought it would or you want it or you needed someone to guide you in that next step or transition, you know, whether it was something personally in your life professionally, or like academically in your life. And so it's really having those those kinds of conversations just as much as we can through it, you know, throughout the campus, I would hope that we are really putting that out there as a campus that it is a safe space, you know, and that you can utilize those things and that there isn't a stigma behind it and that you are valued with your differences that you have.

Joi Patterson: 43:35

Thank you, Angela, for your knowledge and your passion. And hopefully our listeners, not only did you learn something, but we also know that being in college is a very social experience. And so it's just as important as we prepare our students for the workplace, and that we have an inclusive environment for our employees and our students. So thank you, Angela for being here. I really enjoyed this and can't wait to air it.

Angela Szczepanik-Sanchez: 44:08

Thank you. I appreciate you inviting me in and having this opportunity to engage and I look forward to future engagement and opportunity. Absolutely

Joi Patterson: 44:18

your ExoMars

Amy Vujaklija: 44:20

Thank you for listening to teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi. Visit our website at govst.edu/teaching and leading podcast to see the show notes from this episode.

Joi Patterson: 44:38

We appreciate Governor State University's work behind the things to make publishing possible. Stay tuned for more episodes with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi